Episode Transcription

15: How She Went From Freaking Out, to a Raging Success!

Hello, lovely lady. Welcome to Classroom To Business, the podcast designed specifically for teachers working to become successful businesswomen and creating financial freedom and lifestyle flexibility. I'm Kirsty Gibbs business coach mentor for educators and teachers just like you who are ready to step away from the classroom and create something.

The Classroom to Business Podcast is committed to helping you grow your business, break down those barriers to success, and replace your teaching salary without having to work more hours. It is time for you to find freedom and start being your own boss so you can once again enjoy what you do and wake up each morning loving life.

Welcome to a brand new episode of Classroom to Business. Today I'm very excited to be bringing on a special guest for you, Jacinta Palmer, from Watch us Bloom now. Jasinta is. An amazing teacher. She's now got a tutoring business, mindful Munchkins, and she is a former member of the tutoring growth membership.

I wanted to bring her on because I wanted her to share not only her story of her business, but also some of the challenges that arose for her. So Jata, welcome. Tell us a little bit more about your business. You know, your mission, where you're located, who it is that you work. Hi. Yeah, perfect. Thanks so much for asking me by the way.

So I am obviously just an a Palmer mom of three business owner, still a teacher. Our tutoring business, Michael Munchkin services, the Canberra Goong area in New South Wales, N A C T. So we service a bit of both. We just do primary. Tutoring at the moment, but we also do a lot of stuff around wellbeing and mindfulness at the moment as well, which is really exciting.

Our mission, that's a hard one for me cause I feel like I could talk about it all day, but for me, yes, I run a tuition business. But at the core of it is the relationships and the connection we have with the kids. That's the core for me. So first, making them feel seen, making them feel safe, making them feel listened to.

Also their families too. So not just the child that we're teaching. Making sure the families feel just as safe and secure and connected and understood. That's probably my mission, I think, because I. Yes, obviously our children need to learn to read and write. Absolutely. But I think connection is the heart of that before you then go on to teach them that.

So I think my mission would be to intertwine connection and wellbeing and education all in one session. I love it. It's so good. And I guess I actually had that question down to ask you today, but jumping ahead a little bit. When you and I first worked together, you know, your business has evolved from mm-hmm.

What you just started at. So on your Instagram it currently says, connection is the heart of everything we stand for. Mm-hmm. And I love that. Was there something that happened in your business or for you personally that made you make that change? Or was that maybe just always there but you've sort of just more recently really brought it to life?

Yeah. I think now looking back on since starting my business and doing my own personal growth, I think it actually started in my own primary school journey. So I always felt myself as by some teachers, not really understood, not really, you know, I talked a lot. I was quite emotional. I needed to learn in a different way, and I didn't fit the mold of the box.

So I think it started all the way back then. And then what happened was about six years ago, I had a class and more than half were. And about six to seven of them had autism or needs or showed traits of autism or A D H D and probably six others were 18 months behind. And I would just leave every single day deflated because I couldn't give those kids what they needed.

And then I also couldn't give the other kids in the classroom what they needed that were at grade level or needed extens. So I just, before I, after I had my daughter Evie, I decided to start to tutor actually just as a little hobby, but I decided to start to tutor cause I knew there was children in our community that needed something other than mainstream education.

Like I mainstream, I still teach in mainstream education, so I still think it has its place, but I think there's a lot of work to do around some of the children that are, are in mainstream education. So, yeah, I think I started it. It started all the way back in my own. Primary school journey, but that's where it came from, probably the last class I taught and just seeing that they needed to connect with me before I taught them how to read.

They needed to connect with me before I taught them math, when they came in off the playground and they were dysregulated. They needed the relationship and connection and wellbeing activities before we went on and dig geography. So I think that's where it came from as well. Yeah. That's so awesome.

That's, thanks for sharing that because I think, oh, I mean, we could actually talk about, that's a whole other topic that we could talk about for hours is how our previous, you know, early childhood or the way that we've grown up impacts what we do now. And I know that for a lot of ladies, Childhood trauma or events or experiences actually impact them even as business owners.

So it's great to see that you've been able to take that and flip it and now provide what, I guess you feel you need it as a child for these kids. So that's really cool. I, I love hearing stories like that. So, I guess you kind of already touched on this, this question really, but what made you start that tutoring business?

Was it really just that desire to help those kids? You could that help the classroom? I also loved doing what I do, so, and I needed a bit of, you know, I needed not just to be mom and I needed to go and do something else, but yes, I wanted to give them something that I knew they couldn't get at the moment.

And that's not because the schools or the teachers, Trying their absolute best they were, but I just knew there were some students that just needed an extra little bit of help and even just. Another face like, and another way of doing things sometimes can help that child confidence, all of that sort of stuff.

So I just wanted to build something that could give that child some confidence and some extra skills, but also working alongside their teacher. So we also work alongside the school really closely. Yeah. But I just wanted to fill the gap somehow if I could. And that's really cool too, because some of the ladies that I work with, they have got out of the education system because they're fed up with it and they don't like it and they don't agree with it, and they're, you know, worn out and overworked and things like that.

And I 100% get that. But your journey is a little bit different in that you are still in the education system. I mean, we all know what it's like. It is very fast paced and as teachers we don't get all of this time off that people see us apparently getting. We do work really, really hard. But I love that you are still part of that system and what you are doing is you're kind of coexisting, but you are, like you said, filling in the gaps.

It's, you're not going against schools and I. I'm not saying that anybody else is, but mm-hmm. You are sort of saying there's gaps here. I can see them, like you said, it's not teachers, it's not anybody's specifically fault, but the gaps are there. So I'm coming in with my team and, and we're gonna be helping.

So you do offer academic services. What else is it that you now provide for students and families? So we now, I now run wellbeing and mindfulness programs predominantly on the school holidays. I was running them at my school last term, which was really cool. But yeah, predominantly like a school holiday program.

So we work on. Well, we work on a range of things really, but the core of it is sort of giving them some mindfulness and wellbeing techniques that they can use at school. So really practical things like breath work that they could use in the toilet or use at their desk without anyone knowing, you know, to regulate their system.

I also teach them a lot about. Because a lot of them come to me and they actually don't realize that they're dysregulated because that's normal for them. So I teach them to look out for how their body might show that it's dysregulated. We talk a lot about how your body shows it before it goes to your mind, and then we work on a lot of ways that they can.

Regulate. So a lot of ways that they can really practical things for kids, you know, the list goes on. They can do their breath work, they might be physical, they wanna go and run or jump on the trampoline. We do these little mindfulness activities with like beads and just a range of mindfulness activities.

They can help regulate their system. What else do we work on? Friendship. A lot of emotion stuff. So a lot because. Even my own children, my own eight year old, and the children that I teach and the children that I tutor, they feel like they can't express it. They feel like they can't and they actually can.

We just have to show them how to do it in a more healthy way. We obviously don't teach them just to go out and. Throw this massive big tantrum and hurt everybody around them. It's not what we do, but we show them that it's absolutely okay to cry. It's okay to scream and yell sometimes, but after we express that, then this is how we calm down.

So we do teach them that it's healthy to show those emotions, but we also give them a lot of ways on how to regulate their system. We do, Fran. Yeah. Sorry. You go. I think that's amazing. So, you know, my eldest is eight. She's nearly nine. Yeah. For the past 12 months. So she's, you know, not at that puberty stage yet, but she is at this almost like pre puberty stage.

And she's getting these emotions like she's hormonal and you know, every month she'll just have these big feelings and these big emotions that she gets upset and she doesn't know why. And I've. Tweaked and I thought, wow, this is like me every month, you know, I get these big feelings and these horrible emotions and I don't know why, and there's no reason why, but I take it out on everyone around me and I had to actually have a conversation with my husband about it and say, you know, this is happening.

She's not being naughty, she's not doing. For any reason that she can control, because initially we sort of thought she was acting out and he, especially, and I mean he's an amazing dad, very, very hands on. So he could see the change in her and he's like, we've gotta nip this in the bud kind of thing. But we had to have that conversation.

I said, she can't help this. And so, Our strategy for her was, when you feel this, just come and give us a hug and just say you've got big emotions, and it's really sweet. Now actually watching him, because just the other week she had one of these moments where she's just. Lost a plot almost, and out of the blue.

And he said to her, do you need a cuddle? Are you having big emotions? And she's like, yes. And so it was, you know, it was a really beautiful moment. Yeah. To see that he's embraced it and taken on. Especially, you know, as a dad you don't, as a guy, you don't experience what we do as females and Yeah, as an adult it's hard to, to handle and deal with.

So you can only imagine as a kid, but I love what you're doing because. Like I, you know, right now listening to you, I'm thinking, oh wow. I would love tools to help us deal with that and to help her deal with that, because this is only the beginning, you know? Yeah. Totally hit puberty or anything like that yet, so I can only imagine how difficult it will get, and you are right.

If that blows up. Mm-hmm. Everything else seems to fall apart. You know, the academics, that side of things, it's really hard for them to focus on that because they've got all of this other emotions and big stuff going on that just sort of takes over. Yeah, totally. And that's why I started with the children.

So we teach the children, all of that stuff. But my big sort of vision for me and the business and where we wanna go is to actually teach the teachers and teach the parents how to implement this at home as well. Because I always say to my teachers, the teachers, when I was at the school doing it, and then just my tutors that I speak to at the.

We can teach the children this all day long, but they are only eight, so they need us to regulate, co-regulate with them and to look behind the behavior. And it's really hard. It is really hard. To be regulated yourself in that moment, but you just have to think there is a need. Somehow. There is some sort of need under there, whether they need more information or they need to feel safe and loved or you know, there is always a need under there.

So it's a bit like a little, those little Russian dolls that you have to sort of unpack and dig into. So that's what just screamed at me with that class that I had, because I had about six boys that would come in and they were, they were so heightened. But I needed them to sit down and do handwriting.

Well, that's not, that doesn't work like that, but the classroom structure in the system is so, there's so much pressure for teachers to have to do that where I think that's where it needs to flip. And that's sort of why I'm still there because I do still wanna make a change in that way. Like I think it needs to flip where wellbeing and mindfulness and emotions actually have to be the center of our lesson.

Because their long-term memory or the way that they focus or the way that they process is going to be completely different when they're dysregulated to when they're regulated. So, I just think that underpins everything that we do as teachers and parents as well. They really need us to be regulated and co-regulate and know we're not robots and either are they.

So that's why, that's why I think I'm just so passionate about that because there are some instances still where children aren't allowed to express how they feel. And that just, it just compiles and they suppress, suppress, suppress, and then they come home to their mom and dad and they blow. Yeah. I would love to love to change that in some small or big way, that wellbeing and Yeah.

Mindfulness is sort of at the center of our sessions and the reading and the writing, it will follow when they feel safe. People always say to me, sorry, going off an attendance, people say to me, how come you think your business. You know, grew. And I truly believe it's because I make the parents and my tutors make the parents feel listened to.

They make them feel safe, they make them feel understood, and they know we really adore their children. And I think the children feel that as well. So they know if they come to us and they're in a bad mood. We're not gonna judge them for it. We're not gonna, you know, there's no, there's no consequence for them being in a bad mood with us.

It does hinder the session a little bit, but, you know, we differentiate and we change things and we, we get it. So I do think that's been a part of why the business has been successful, because we're not just saying, come and do your. It's, we talk to 'em about their life. We talk to 'em about what happened at recess and we, you know, we, yeah.

So I think connection and wellbeing, being at the forefront of everything would just be incredible. Yes, I agree. I'm hanging out for that change. So you have grown quite a bit. Mm-hmm. And when you started in the tutoring growth membership, I hope you don't mind me asking this question. There it was slower start.

Yeah. Than you hoped for in the beginning. And I remember, cause I think you came on board as a founding member when we very, very first opened up the doors. Mm-hmm. And you were in there, you know, doing all of the things, showing up to all the coaching calls and just doing everything. And I remember you.

You know, probably for a few weeks there just messaging me, oh, I, I dunno why this isn't working. And, and I've done all this and I'm still not getting students. And I, and they were absolutely freaking out. I, I specifically remember one day we, I was at, I'd had my daughters at a rock climbing thing. Mm-hmm.

And I just saw my phone and there was all of these messages from you and I was like, oh no, what's happened? And it was just you having this moment of like, Have I done the right thing? Oh my gosh. Isn't working. And look at you now. Yeah. Yeah. I just kept saying to you, be patient, be consistent and persistent.

And you did, and you've now created this thing that I think is, you know, exceptional. What was going through your head in those moments? You know, what were you thinking? What were you feeling when. You were freaking out a little bit. Yeah, I think I'm a planner so I have to see, like I have all of these, I come up with a new idea every 24 hours, but I also still need to have a plan, you know what I mean?

And leaving my education job was a big deal for me cuz I'm obsessed with it. Like I love the children. I don't a hundred percent agree with the system, but I still love what I do. So it was like a big risk. And. Starting a tutoring business, not knowing if it's, you know, you, you have doubts about everything you do.

Right? And I think I just had too many and I just wasn't trusting myself in what I knew and what I did and what I believed. So I just, I think I needed to do that a little bit and needed to breathe and know that, you know, the people that come to me, they will come, it'll get out there. But I think it was more.

Me always thinking, oh, should I just go back to teaching? You know, should I, you know, just because it's what I'm good at, I'm comfortable there. It's, yeah, so I think it was just because I was out of my box and the business stuff as well, for me, if I'm honest, still does sometimes drive me a bit mad. So I think it was that stress.

I just, I didn't have much help with the business side of things when now I do. So I think it was just trying to do everything and I was rushing it. I wasn't enjoying it or being present with it. So if I had my time back, I would just take a breath and do what I tell the children to do and just let it flow.

But I think that, but the Children Growth Mastermind was so helpful because all of those little things that. Like I was a teacher, I wasn't a business owner. That it helps you with like little things like even tax super, how to employ somebody, how to advertise, how to change your groups from one-on-one to small group, you cost like all of that stuff, you know?

That was really helpful because otherwise you're guessing. Yeah. And sometimes it's a case of you don't know what you don't know. Yeah. And you know, that's what I found in my business. I was making mistakes all the way along and doing things the hard way. And it wasn't until I'd done all of those things and I was like, oh, there was a better way to do those.

Yeah. But you don't know if you don't know. And so you're just coming along, you know, with your blinkers on or winging it, so to speak, sometimes. Things can be harder and slower, but So how many students and staff do you have now? The students ebbs and flows between turns. It really goes up during report time and nap plan results.

Yeah. And around Christmas time it might slow down. So the most we've ever had, I think, is been about 75 to 80. Nice. And now I think we're about 60 and I have three tutor. And are you all groups one-on-one? So we used to be one-on-one, but I soon learned that that's not for me. It's not for me because I'm a chat.

I love to chat. I love to talk, I love to do something. And the kids feel more confident when there's other kids in the class and they learn from the other children. They make new friendships and even the parents will talk out in the waiting room. So yes, we changed from one-on-one to small groups of three.

There are times though when my groups have four if I'm teaching or, or one of my really trained tutors is teaching. But there also are times when my groups just have two because I do have a university student with me at the moment, and they just have two until they feel comfortable and have learned the programs and things like that.

But my trained teachers have three and really experienced teachers can go up to four. And so have you had much resistance from the parents when you transitioned from sort of your one-on-ones to groups? And how did you manage that if you did? Yes, I did have a li just a little bit. Most of the parents really trusted me and what I was doing and, and knew that I wouldn't do it if I didn't think I could manage it.

But yes, there were a few that just didn't really thought, just one-on-one was the answer. But as soon as a few weeks went by, They forgot all about one-on-one and knew that, you know, groups is just as infe effective. So a little bit of resistance, but it was probably more resistance in my own mind, I think, actually.

Oh, I'm so glad you said that, because I think every time I have a conversation with one of my legs about helping them transition from one-on-one to groups. The thing that I say to them is you have to believe it. If you don't believe that these groups are going to be a good thing and that they are going to succeed, you are never gonna be able to convince a parent who's relying on you to be the expert.

But you know, like even your wellness services and coaching, things like that, I wouldn't buy into that. If I was talking to somebody who was like, oh yeah, you know, wellness is important, we've gotta bring that in as well. Like, but listening to you, I'm like, I'm convinced this, this needs to happen. My child needs to have that at the forefront of their education.

Because you believe it. Yeah. And you stand by it and you are so passionate about it. And. I mean, again, we could go off on a tangent, talk about this fors, but that's also part of, it's part of your branding, it's part of your messaging, it's part of who you are. Mm-hmm. But on a wider scale, who your business is and what your business does and why people come to you specifically over somebody else.

So it's so smart and good business to have that, but also it just makes you unique and I think, you know, Brings you back to your purpose about what you are supposed to be doing, who you are supposed to be working with, and the changes that you are supposed to be making. So obviously, you know, transitioning was a bit of a challenge.

What would you say were some of the other biggest challenges that you've had so far? Whether it's, you know, the early days starting or growing or just in general owning an educational business, it would be boundaries and the mental load that you take on yourself. So say for instance, if there's 60 kids in my business, I still do look over all of their plans.

Cause I'm a bit of a helicopter mom and I still do talk to the tutors every week. So, you know, there might be that many children and I don't tutor them myself. But what I've really had to do is put trust in that the people that I employ, Are doing an amazing job, will do an amazing job, and are doing the best job for their students so that I can take that pressure off me as taking that on myself.

Because what I was doing was if somebody wasn't progressing or if somebody wasn't engaging or if somebody was a new tutor or something like that, I was taking that on board as if it was not my problem, but my, it was all on me. It had to be all on me because it's my name, it's my business. So I've tried to really.

Put a boundary up of just knowing that I've employed these people, they're doing an incredible job. They will do an incredible job, and if they need me, they'll ask. And I have a look over the plans when I do and we chat. So just knowing that what we are doing is more than enough and I don't need to be in every single session.

That was one of the ones that was really, really hard for me and actually probably still is. I really need to do that. What else has been tricky? Lowering my load was really tricky, so I've really. Really lowered it. Like next term, I'm only tutoring six students, which is really big. And that was hard because you get to know the family, you get to know the child, you really know how to help them.

So that's been really hard. But when you're a business owner, you sort of need to make that choice because if you want the business to grow and you wanna do all these other fantastic things and you have a family, it's, you can't do everything. So that's one thing that I. And then, yeah, probably just all of the, I have a fantastic bookkeeper now, thank goodness, because that stuff hurts my brain.

All I wanna do is talk to the moms and two to the kids. Like that's it. Like that's just my gem. I just love it. So if I could do that all day long, I would be in flow and I'd be so happy. But put me down and let me do my invoices. Mm. I've got a migraine, so I have a really good boutique now, so they'll probably be my three things.

Yeah, I love it. And it's really cool. They're all things that everybody can embrace. You know, it's not something, so we can all put boundaries in place. We can all share our workload and we can all get net good bookkeeper, you know, like it's, yeah. None of what you have struggled with and I guess even overcome has been anything drastic.

Yeah, it's been stuff that, you know, all of those three things, as you know, we work through in the tutoring, growth membership, but even outside of that, the things that you can access and do. So my last question. What sort of advice would you give to anybody starting up an educational business? Like what, maybe one or two things, little nuggets of gold would you be able to share with someone in that situation?

I, oh, that's really hard too. I think you need to get really clear on what you believe, not what anyone else does, so not what the system believes, not what your friend down the road believes, not what the cheering business in your town believes. None of that, just what you believe because cuz that will sell yourself if that makes sense.

Like that will make people trust you. That will make people come to you. So you've sort of got, really gotta get really clear on your movement and the mission you wanna make because then your people just come to you. That's one that I would. And also join the Mastermind. You'll learn what you need to learn.

I think so. And then I think you. Because I didn't do this at the start and I wish I did. Just, you need to, you just need to breathe and you just need to do one thing at a time. And it could be slow at the start like mine was, but you know, once you are yourself and people come to you like we don't have to.

S word of mouth. It's all word of mouth, because that's why I wholeheartedly believe it's the way we make them feel. Because they'll tell their cousin, they'll tell the person to pick up, or it's all word of mouth. It's all, some of the teachers at schools refer us. So that's why you've gotta get really clear on the movement you wanna make and how you wanna make them feel, how you wanna make the parent feel.

Because a lot of the time they just want you to listen and they want you to love their kid, like they love their kid, and they want you to understand their strengths, but also understand where they need help with and development. So I think get really clear on the movement you wanna make. Join the Mastermind and learn all of the fancy things that you've gotta learn before you get your bookkeeper.

And then just have fun with it too. Like, because even some weeks I find myself in a tears. I'm not enjoying it. I'm not enjoying it because I'm in a tears. So I sort of, you sort of have to have fun with what you're doing. Like we're moving now, we're moving out of our rental space. I've got two spaces in mind that we're gonna move to.

Lake Jata would've stressed about that. And L lost sleepless nights and, but now I'm like, no, it's okay. You know, we're gonna have fun with it. We'll move and it'll go here. You know? So you've gotta also enjoy it and have fun with it and make the kids laugh and just don't make it so serious. I think too, you've just got, because you have to enjoy it as well.

So they would be my three things. I love them. They're so good and they're spot on. And especially having fun, you know? Like I said before, so many of us have left the classroom because we are burnt out, we're overwhelmed. We don't wanna put ourselves in another position where we're just feeling the same way and, and that can happen.

That will happen real quick. Exactly. It happened to me. It's happened to me. Yeah. And business is not always, you know, perfect. It's not smooth sailing all the time. There, there are highs and there are lows, but that's the same where wherever you are. Mm. But the difference is, like you just said, you get to then choose to stop and slow down and breathe.

You then get to choose what happens next. Mm-hmm. So do you freak out and, and stress out and, and get overwhelmed or do you say, this is gonna be amazing and. You know, bring those creative juices in and, and have fun with it. So they're really good tips. Thank you. I think I have a quick, another one. Is that ok?

Cause this is, Stress me out in the beginning. Yeah. And what your mastermind helps with is costing. So you really need to think about that because that plays a really big part in your stress level, your income, your family's life, your burnout. And in my. Experience, I would put it higher rather than I'd put it lower.

So I, you need really need to think about what you're gonna spend and where you want your business to go, like where you want it to go and the programs you wanna use, and the resources you wanna use and where you want it to be. All of that sort of stuff, because, I think the costing of my sessions really played a part in my burnout.

So I think that's something to get clear on and like obviously work with you with in your mastermind, because I think that can play a big role in a tutor's. Yeah. Burnout and their joy for what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. Especially if you don't feel like you're being valued. Yeah. You know, like I'm not saying one thing is better than the other, but.

You know, looking into horse riding. Well, my daughter's doing horse riding and it's, we are paying on the lower scale and it's $40 for half an hour. So if she wants to ride for an hour, it's about $80 or something like that. So, as a teacher now, I know that there are a lot of costs involved with horses and, and things like that.

That's just that me personally, I want, I don't want to feel less valued than the horse riding school because I feel that my education and my experience and what I can bring to this child and their life is just as valuable, and for some kids, even more so often. People come in and they put their prices really low because they think that if I put my price really low, I'll get more people.

Mm-hmm. But you're devaluing yourself. Mm-hmm. Which means people will look at you and devalue you because they think, oh, she mustn't be very good. She's just got cheap prices. And like you said, you then start to feel rubbish and resent what you are doing because you are spending this time. Yeah. Bringing all of this greatness that you've got.

Producing all of these results and transformations with this child and this family, but you are getting paid pitance for it. You know, like, so I think that's such an important point to remember and. Thank you for sharing that as well because yeah, it's probably the number one thing I'd say that people ask about is pricing.

Totally. And I think too, it can be a bit screening. Oh, will they leave if I put it up? I have had a few question me, parents question me, but they didn't leave because of it. Majority, 98% love what we offer. They value it, they understand. And they stay because they know what they get. You know? So I think you've just gotta back yourself and back what you offer and know that the people that are meant to be in your business will.

We'll still be there, I think. But it can be, that was one thing Yeah. That I just wanted to mention cuz that was quite stressful for me at the start. Yeah. And you're not alone. And I think you, you sort of touch, touched on, you wanna, you have to back yourself. You have to be confident, you have to own it.

Like I was just thinking of another example then, you know, swimming lessons. Swimming lessons are in a group. Of six kids, sometimes they go for half an hour and even there you're paying $35. Yeah. So you know, I would say if you are worrying about your prices, if you've put your prices really low, have a look at what other services are around just to help build you up a little bit and know that people can afford what you're asking.

People are already paying what you're asking in other ways for other services and things like that. I think because where teacher. We just have these really big, kind marshmallow hearts and we don't like asking for money and we've never had to before. Yeah. You know, we just get a paycheck and if we sat down and worked out an hour rate as teachers though, it wouldn't be that great.

And I, maybe that's subconsciously why we do put out prices low to start with, because. We haven't been valued in that sense before, but that's a whole other topic. Maybe I'll get you back on another day. We can chat some more about that. But thank you so, so much for your time today. It's been lovely to bring you on and pick your brains and hear a bit more of your story and and where you're at now.

So thank you so, so much. Really, really great to have you. Of course. Thank you. It's been fabulous. Thanks, and I will put the links to Jas Instagram and all places that you can get in touch and follow along her journey in the show notes below. Thanks so much. If you enjoyed this episode today, I would absolutely love for you to leave a review.

It only takes a minute, and if you haven't yet subscribed, make sure you do to ensure that you never miss an. Finally, if you want to know more about what we do, head over to the website, kirsty gibbs.com or check out the link in the show notes below. Thanks for listening. It's so great to have you here.